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Fantasy » alt.fan.pratchett » [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au
[I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297063] Sa, 08 Juli 2006 14:02
Flesh-eating Dragon  
The new season of Doctor Who, starring David Tennant, has started
screening in Australia, and what better time for a Christmas invasion
is there, than July?

Impressions? On the whole, I liked it ... for a special.

I think Doctor Who is allowed to be a little more comic than usual, a
little more flexible than usual, once in a while. There are certain
kinds of stories that make a nice change but get extremely stale if
allowed to become routine. This was one of those.

There were some good special effects, some good plot twists, and some
good lines. I especially liked that whip, with the skeletons and all -
anyone want to buy one like that for Stacie?

The tea that eventually awakens the Doctor from unconsciousness
was reminiscent of the coffee that brings Jon Pertwee out of a trance
in _Planet of the Spiders_. As such, I found it very predictable, but
still, quite a nice allusion to earlier adventures.

One thing I did not like was the way the Doctor somehow neutralises
the whip, harmlessly grabbing hold of it with no ill effects. That
sort of thing belongs to the comicbook superhero genre, but seems out
of place in Doctor Who. The Doctor is not a comicbook superhero and I
hate it when he is treated like one.

Also, the ending. The Doctor accusing the Prime Minister of murder
started off as a nice allusion to the arguments we remember between
Jon Pertwee and the Brigadier, but seriously, the idea that a few
words spoken to just one member of her staff can cause widespread
inconfidence in the Prime Minister is just plain stupid.

End of review.

Agreements? Disagreements? Comments? Warnings?

Adrian.
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297180 ] So, 09 Juli 2006 14:26
Mark Foweraker  
8'FED wrote:
> The new season of Doctor Who, starring David Tennant, has started
> screening in Australia, and what better time for a Christmas invasion
> is there, than July?
>
> Impressions? On the whole, I liked it ... for a special.
>
> I think Doctor Who is allowed to be a little more comic than usual, a
> little more flexible than usual, once in a while. There are certain
> kinds of stories that make a nice change but get extremely stale if
> allowed to become routine. This was one of those.
>
> There were some good special effects, some good plot twists, and some
> good lines. I especially liked that whip, with the skeletons and all -
> anyone want to buy one like that for Stacie?
>
> The tea that eventually awakens the Doctor from unconsciousness
> was reminiscent of the coffee that brings Jon Pertwee out of a trance
> in _Planet of the Spiders_. As such, I found it very predictable, but
> still, quite a nice allusion to earlier adventures.
>
> One thing I did not like was the way the Doctor somehow neutralises
> the whip, harmlessly grabbing hold of it with no ill effects. That
> sort of thing belongs to the comicbook superhero genre, but seems out
> of place in Doctor Who. The Doctor is not a comicbook superhero and I
> hate it when he is treated like one.
>
> Also, the ending. The Doctor accusing the Prime Minister of murder
> started off as a nice allusion to the arguments we remember between
> Jon Pertwee and the Brigadier, but seriously, the idea that a few
> words spoken to just one member of her staff can cause widespread
> inconfidence in the Prime Minister is just plain stupid.
>
> End of review.
>
> Agreements? Disagreements? Comments? Warnings?
>
> Adrian.
>
>
Your Tabloid Press obviously is not a vicious as ours, despite Aussie's
owning a fair part of it ;-)

A whispered comment to the aide, but the Prime Minister demands to know
"What did he say?" Thus when the aide (probably loudly enough to be
heard by more than just the Prime Minister) repeats it is takes on the
status of a remark agreed to, even if it was not meant. If the Doctor
had said it out loud, then various people would have denounced it and
that would have been the end, but reported second hand and it becomes a
secret to be known!

I would agree the current Doctor is less dark and more winsome than the
last and without spoiling anything when accused of "you're making it up
as he goes along" he replies to the effect "Yes, but I'm good at it!"
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297231 ] Mo, 10 Juli 2006 01:43
Flesh-eating Dragon  
Mark Foweraker wrote:
> 8'FED wrote:

>> The new season of Doctor Who, starring David Tennant, has started
>> screening in Australia, and what better time for a Christmas invasion
>> is there, than July?
[...]
>> Also, the ending. The Doctor accusing the Prime Minister of murder
>> started off as a nice allusion to the arguments we remember between
>> Jon Pertwee and the Brigadier, but seriously, the idea that a few
>> words spoken to just one member of her staff can cause widespread
>> inconfidence in the Prime Minister is just plain stupid.
[...]
>
> Your Tabloid Press obviously is not a vicious as ours, despite Aussie's owning
> a fair part of it ;-)
>
> A whispered comment to the aide, but the Prime Minister demands to know "What
> did he say?" Thus when the aide (probably loudly enough to be heard by more
> than just the Prime Minister) repeats it is takes on the status of a remark
> agreed to, even if it was not meant. If the Doctor had said it out loud, then
> various people would have denounced it and that would have been the end, but
> reported second hand and it becomes a secret to be known!

In this case, the "secret" was, "Don't you think she looks tired?".
Which isn't even a secret, just an opinion. Comments on that order do
not lead to widespread doubts about the health of the person said to
look tired - not even in politics. To suggest that they might is to
suggest genuine pig product.

(I am, by the way, stunned that it took more than 24 hours for my post
to get a single reply. I predicted quite a different outcome.)

Adrian.
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297241 ] Mo, 10 Juli 2006 08:06
redtiger  
"8'FED" <dragon [at] netyp.com.au> wrote in message
news:e8s492$185u$1 [at] mud.stack.nl...
<snip>

> In this case, the "secret" was, "Don't you think she looks tired?".
> Which isn't even a secret, just an opinion. Comments on that order do
> not lead to widespread doubts about the health of the person said to
> look tired - not even in politics. To suggest that they might is to
> suggest genuine pig product.
>

I can believe that simple comments like that can lead to a major rumour
campaign. Just look at the fuss the media keeps making over the
Howard/Costello non-event. This is usually the result of a slow news day
though and will take time to build. Having it be the lead story by the six
o'clock news on the day the world has it's first public violent contact with
aliens is a bit hard to swallow.

> (I am, by the way, stunned that it took more than 24 hours for my post
> to get a single reply. I predicted quite a different outcome.)
>

Yeah, well, night shift and all that.

General comments: It took me a while to get used to the whimsical nature of
the episode. Like you said, as long as its not overdone I think it will be
OK.

Why did the Prime Minister, a confident capable woman ("tell him he's not my
boss and he's not starting a war over it"), have to constantly inform people
of who she was?

I liked the self discovery angle of the regeneration. 'What kind of man am
I? Ah! That kind of man, well isn't that nice.' I thought he was a bit
overconfident in the swordfight considering his untested body until I found
out about the extra regeneration energy.

One for the ukians. Can anyone tell if the pentagram formed by the Torchwood
firing points line up with those used so often by Robert Rankin?

Anthony

--
Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297249 ] Mo, 10 Juli 2006 11:30
jester  
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:06:53 +1000, redtiger
<redtigeriiSPAM [at] iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
>Why did the Prime Minister, a confident capable woman ("tell him he's not my
>boss and he's not starting a war over it"), have to constantly inform people
>of who she was?

Leftover running gag from her previous appearance I think.

--
Andy Brown
And on the seventh day, He exited from append mode.
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297265 ] Mo, 10 Juli 2006 15:21
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
The time: 10 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: "8'FED" <dragon [at] netyp.com.au>

> In this case, the "secret" was, "Don't you think she looks
> tired?". Which isn't even a secret, just an opinion.
> Comments on that order do not lead to widespread doubts
> about the health of the person said to look tired - not
> even in politics. To suggest that they might is to suggest
> genuine pig product.

I'm sure Charles Kennedy, who was essentially being brought
down in a similar way even as the episode aired (only with
drink rather than tiredness), will be delighted to hear it
doesn't happen 8-)...

In any case, it wasn't *just* the comment; the Doctor had
already carefully primed the PM to react in a way that would
strike the aide as "over-emotional", thereby increasing the
doubts he'd seeded, and subsequently fueling the rumour
herself once it escaped ("I'm fine! Don't I look fine? I'm
fine!!")

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297304 ] Mo, 10 Juli 2006 19:46
Eric Jarvis  
Daibhid Ceanaideach daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com wrote in
<Xns97FC9221FC475daibhid [at] 130.133.1.4>:
> The time: 10 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
> speaker: "8'FED" <dragon [at] netyp.com.au>
>
> > In this case, the "secret" was, "Don't you think she looks
> > tired?". Which isn't even a secret, just an opinion.
> > Comments on that order do not lead to widespread doubts
> > about the health of the person said to look tired - not
> > even in politics. To suggest that they might is to suggest
> > genuine pig product.
>
> I'm sure Charles Kennedy, who was essentially being brought
> down in a similar way even as the episode aired (only with
> drink rather than tiredness), will be delighted to hear it
> doesn't happen 8-)...
>
> In any case, it wasn't *just* the comment; the Doctor had
> already carefully primed the PM to react in a way that would
> strike the aide as "over-emotional", thereby increasing the
> doubts he'd seeded, and subsequently fueling the rumour
> herself once it escaped ("I'm fine! Don't I look fine? I'm
> fine!!")
>

Not to mention the whole "tired and emotional" gag that Private Eye used
to run (maybe it still does). In that case being a euphemism for utterly
Charles Kennedyed.

There are quite a few examples in British politics over the last fifty
years or so of politicians "brung low" by rumours of alcoholism, ill
health or mental breakdown. There are also plenty of examples of
deliberate attempts to start such rumours that have failed due to the
intended victim having better PR skills than their rivals. There may even
be some that have succeeded or failed on the grounds of being true or
false, though I doubt there are many.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297306 ] Mo, 10 Juli 2006 20:23
alec  
In article <MPG.1f1ca2c233ff1fcd989db9 [at] cenote.gkhs.net>,
eric [at] ericjarvis.co.uk says...

> Not to mention the whole "tired and emotional" gag that Private Eye used
> to run (maybe it still does). In that case being a euphemism for utterly
> Charles Kennedyed.

The original person who was "tired and emotional" was Oliver Reeve, who
turned up for some chat show completely plastered. The next morning, his
staff coined the t&e phrase to explain his bahaviour.
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297307 ] Mo, 10 Juli 2006 21:10
Tiny Bulcher  
Alec Cawley wrote:
> In article <MPG.1f1ca2c233ff1fcd989db9 [at] cenote.gkhs.net>,
> eric [at] ericjarvis.co.uk says...
>
>> Not to mention the whole "tired and emotional" gag that Private Eye
>> used to run (maybe it still does). In that case being a euphemism
>> for utterly Charles Kennedyed.
>
> The original person who was "tired and emotional" was Oliver Reeve,
> who turned up for some chat show completely plastered. The next
> morning, his staff coined the t&e phrase to explain his bahaviour.

Nope. The late Rt Hon George Brown (the John Prescott of the 1960s) was the
first to have the phrase attached to him, in similar circumstances. (Only it
was a TV interview outside Parliament, IIRC, not a chat-show).

--
Tiny
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297308 ] Mo, 10 Juli 2006 21:48
Mike Stevens  
Alec Cawley wrote:
> In article MPG.1f1ca2c233ff1fcd989db9 [at] cenote.gkhs.net,

> The original person who was "tired and emotional" was Oliver Reeve,
> who turned up for some chat show completely plastered. The next
> morning, his staff coined the t&e phrase to explain his bahaviour.

Do you mean Oliver Reed? In any cae I thought the original person it was
used of was the UK politician George Brown, sometime in the 1960s.


--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus III
web-site www.mike-stevens.co.uk

No man is an island. So is Man.
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297311 ] Mo, 10 Juli 2006 22:10
Julian Hall  
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 19:23:18 +0100, Alec Cawley wrote:

> The original person who was "tired and emotional" was Oliver Reeve, who
> turned up for some chat show completely plastered. The next morning, his
> staff coined the t&e phrase to explain his bahaviour.

Would that be Oliver Reed turning up completely legless for Parkinson?
--
Kind regards,

Julian Hall
"I'm only on the planet because I missed the bus home"
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297323 ] Mo, 10 Juli 2006 23:25
Eric Jarvis  
Mike Stevens michael.stevens [at] which.net wrote in
<4hfp8rF1qtm6pU1 [at] individual.net>:
> Alec Cawley wrote:
> > In article MPG.1f1ca2c233ff1fcd989db9 [at] cenote.gkhs.net,
>
> > The original person who was "tired and emotional" was Oliver Reeve,
> > who turned up for some chat show completely plastered. The next
> > morning, his staff coined the t&e phrase to explain his bahaviour.
>
> Do you mean Oliver Reed? In any cae I thought the original person it was
> used of was the UK politician George Brown, sometime in the 1960s.
>

I was under that impression too. George Brown wasn't entirely destroyed by
allegations of alcoholism, but it was certainly something that followed
him around and which overshadows his historical reputation as a Chancellor
of the Exchequer who coped with a combination of the most Machiavellian
Prime Minister of modern times and near impossible economic crises,
without ever entirely falling apart. No small achievement in my opinion.

Of course if you are a politician you are expected to attend myriad
official functions and be the life and soul of the party at all of them,
and yet never, ever, be in a position to be filmed or photographed in a
way that even implies inebriation.

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
Re: Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297328 ] Di, 11 Juli 2006 00:05
rja.carnegie  
Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
> The time: 10 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
> speaker: "8'FED" <dragon [at] netyp.com.au>
>
> > In this case, the "secret" was, "Don't you think she looks
> > tired?". Which isn't even a secret, just an opinion.
> > Comments on that order do not lead to widespread doubts
> > about the health of the person said to look tired - not
> > even in politics. To suggest that they might is to suggest
> > genuine pig product.
>
> I'm sure Charles Kennedy, who was essentially being brought
> down in a similar way even as the episode aired (only with
> drink rather than tiredness), will be delighted to hear it
> doesn't happen 8-)...

Well, he /had/ been on the drink. In the course of his downfall he
said he'd not been drinking for, what was it, eighteen months? But the
damage was done. Incidentally, I'm not voting for the other bloke, I
don't like what he says about Arabs.

A comparison that works a bit better, I think, since as far as I'm
aware it was entirely unfounded, was attached to John Major as Prime
Minister: that he had become clinically depressed - as he might well,
and you couldn't really tell he /wasn't/ depressed. It didn't see him
off but it did him a fair bit of damage while it was around - not on
the Kennedy scale, though.
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297330 ] Di, 11 Juli 2006 00:05
raltbos  
Daibhid Ceanaideach <daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> wrote:

> The time: 10 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
> speaker: "8'FED" <dragon [at] netyp.com.au>
>
> > In this case, the "secret" was, "Don't you think she looks
> > tired?". Which isn't even a secret, just an opinion.
> > Comments on that order do not lead to widespread doubts
> > about the health of the person said to look tired - not
> > even in politics. To suggest that they might is to suggest
> > genuine pig product.
>
> I'm sure Charles Kennedy, who was essentially being brought
> down in a similar way even as the episode aired (only with
> drink rather than tiredness), will be delighted to hear it
> doesn't happen 8-)...

Myeahbut... in Charles' case, the rumours were more than a little true;
and it wasn't a single remark, it was, as far as an observer from the
other side of the sea can discern, an orchestrated campaign. Also, of
course, the truth of the rumours had been relatively well known (but
mostly ignored) for years.

> In any case, it wasn't *just* the comment; the Doctor had
> already carefully primed the PM to react in a way that would
> strike the aide as "over-emotional", thereby increasing the
> doubts he'd seeded, and subsequently fueling the rumour
> herself once it escaped ("I'm fine! Don't I look fine? I'm
> fine!!")

Yes, but it was still a single occurance. It would have been a bit more
believable if the Doctor had organised a prolonged smear campaign
against her.

Richard
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297379 ] Di, 11 Juli 2006 08:26
Mike Stevens  
Eric Jarvis wrote:
> Mike Stevens michael.stevens [at] which.net wrote in
> <4hfp8rF1qtm6pU1 [at] individual.net>:
>> Alec Cawley wrote:
>>> In article MPG.1f1ca2c233ff1fcd989db9 [at] cenote.gkhs.net,
>>
>>> The original person who was "tired and emotional" was Oliver Reeve,
>>> who turned up for some chat show completely plastered. The next
>>> morning, his staff coined the t&e phrase to explain his bahaviour.

> I was under that impression too. George Brown wasn't entirely
> destroyed by allegations of alcoholism, but it was certainly
> something that followed him around and which overshadows his
> historical reputation as a Chancellor of the Exchequer who coped with
> a combination of the most Machiavellian Prime Minister of modern
> times and near impossible economic crises, without ever entirely
> falling apart. No small achievement in my opinion.
>
> Of course if you are a politician you are expected to attend myriad
> official functions and be the life and soul of the party at all of
> them, and yet never, ever, be in a position to be filmed or
> photographed in a way that even implies inebriation.

At one time I had a colleague who, at earlier stage of his life, had worked
in George Brown's Private office. He had a lot of admiration for Brown, and
told me that the problem was not that Brown drank a lot but that he was a
workaholic who'd regularly put in 16-hour days at his desk and get very
tired, and at such times he couldn't hold his drink and got tight very
quickly.


--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus III
web-site www.mike-stevens.co.uk

No man is an island. So is Man.
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297446 ] Di, 11 Juli 2006 19:25
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
The time: 10 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: raltbos [at] xs4all.nl (Richard Bos)

> Daibhid Ceanaideach <daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> wrote:
>
>> The time: 10 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
>> speaker: "8'FED" <dragon [at] netyp.com.au>
>>
>> > In this case, the "secret" was, "Don't you think she
>> > looks tired?". Which isn't even a secret, just an
>> > opinion. Comments on that order do not lead to
>> > widespread doubts about the health of the person said to
>> > look tired - not even in politics. To suggest that they
>> > might is to suggest genuine pig product.
>>
>> I'm sure Charles Kennedy, who was essentially being
>> brought down in a similar way even as the episode aired
>> (only with drink rather than tiredness), will be delighted
>> to hear it doesn't happen 8-)...
>
> Myeahbut... in Charles' case, the rumours were more than a
> little true; and it wasn't a single remark, it was, as far
> as an observer from the other side of the sea can discern,
> an orchestrated campaign. Also, of course, the truth of the
> rumours had been relatively well known (but mostly ignored)
> for years.

This is true, but I didn't get the impression it took much to
start the ball rolling. Maybe I'm cynical, but I'd suspect
there was a nascent smear campaign just waiting for something
to smear Harriet Jones *with*.

The effect of the Doctor's comment is, I mainitain,
*possible*. It might be impossible to *guarantee* in the real
world without a bit more effort in keeping it on track, but
that's what makes him the super-intelligent alien...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06
Re: Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #297447 ] Di, 11 Juli 2006 19:26
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
The time: 10 Jul 2006. The place: alt.fan.pratchett. The
speaker: "Robert Carnegie" <rja.carnegie [at] excite.com>

> A comparison that works a bit better, I think, since as far
> as I'm aware it was entirely unfounded, was attached to
> John Major as Prime Minister: that he had become clinically
> depressed - as he might well, and you couldn't really tell
> he /wasn't/ depressed. It didn't see him off but it did
> him a fair bit of damage while it was around - not on the
> Kennedy scale, though.

That does work better, thanks.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
Suggs against sexism. It's Madness gone
politically correct.
Jon Holmes, The Now Show 26/5/06
Re: [I] Tenth Doctor arrives in .au [message #301584 ] Mi, 19 Juli 2006 01:19
Brian Wakeling  
8'FED wrote:
> The new season of Doctor Who, starring David Tennant, has started
> screening in Australia, and what better time for a Christmas
> invasion
> is there, than July?
>
> Impressions? On the whole, I liked it ... for a special.
>
<snip>
>
> Agreements? Disagreements? Comments? Warnings?


As someone said on LJ at the time "There's no such thing as budget
constraints when you can wipe the floor with the other side's ratings
like this."

--
www.sabremeister.me.uk
www.livejournal.com/users/sabremeister/
Use brian at sabremeister dot me dot uk to reply
"To the world you might be one person,
but to one person you might be the world."
Vorheriges Thema:Music with rocks in it
Nächstes Thema:[I] Attention Deff..... Oooh, bunnies!
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